would buy from again without hesitation, Smith & Wesson S&W Vintage Screwdriver 8 Row Knurled Handle used (#234907824646), Remington 700 stamped metal Magazine Follower .222 .223 .17 used nice (#334728927905). is 14" with pad. That luck ran out following World War I when the arms industry declined and the management of Winchester was relinquished to outsiders. This was after extensive reworking of the chokes by Ithaca. H. Lea Lawrence relates in his 2001 GUN DIGEST article, The Saga of Bo Whoop, that in 1921 John Olin sent Buckingham his personal heavy double, a custom-choked Super Fox, for testing. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. John Olin wanted a new 3-inch .410 shotshell with 3/4-ounce of shot for Winchesters new Model 42. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. Buy a Winchester Model 12 12ga., 30-inch Full choke, Simmons ventilated rib; this gun was made in 1941 (se for sale by Vintage Sporting on GunsAmerica.com the best online marketplace for buying and selling semi auto pistols, firearms, accessories, and collectibles : 963027340 Reduced bag limits and shell capacities for repeating shotguns were introduced. Model 12 duck guns are highly specialized tools for a very limited number of duck hunters who can regularly center a duck at 40-60 yards, and need to. As to price, it will also depend on gauge, barrel length, choke, barrel steel, wood type, pad vs. plate, etc. If you pull the trigger and the shell does not fire you must push the slide handle forward to unlock the action. We join Buckingham in his ducking skiff as he is poled through the bayou by Ab, his black guide. I know the patent date for this rib was 1919. Very good condition overall. These ribs have Simmons markings. I have the wood all refinished. Every once in a while a Model 12 comes through our club with a high Moneymaker rib like that. No. says Madis. George Madis indicates in his book The Winchester Model Twelve that about 18,000 Model 12 duck guns were sold during the 1935-1941 period. Simmons vent rib and custom AA+ walnut furniture. Also, the rib and its receiver extension cover the Winchester proof marks, a sure sign that it is not factory installed. This was a result of the Watrous report, which recommended that many of the slow-selling options be discontinued following the war. Buy 1955 Winchester Model 12 20 GA Simmons Rib AA+ Wood: GunBroker is the largest seller of Pump Action Shotguns Shotguns Guns & Firearms All: 974012213. And our John Olin initiated an analysis of Winchesters commercial line in 1942. Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. Manufactured in 1959. , Excellent Winchester Model 12 12 gauge Deluxe Skeet gun with factory issued Cutts Compensator. Sto, Used Winchester 12 20 Gauge, Pump-Action Shotgun, 25" Barrel Wood Stock, No Box. You are correct. Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. Since Every shotgun manufacturer is a friend of mine, Askins views were well known in the industry. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. 30" Vent Rib Excellent White Front . Field grade pump gun with Mod choke barrel. Something went wrong. Get Guns.com offers and news!! You jack the shell out and it goes off under your nose. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. Askins Ithaca 10-gauge double with 2 7/8-inch chambers averaged 86.9% with 1 5/8-ounces of shot. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. Exquisite Winchester Model 12, 20 gauge with Modified bore. "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. Now I have never been wrong about anything in my lifeLOLjust kidding, but the way I read it on the top of page 109JMHOThanks, WC. Askins stated in Modern Shotguns and Loads: All shotguns which are intended for long range work.should be patterned at 60 yards. Continuing, loads which pattern around 85% [at 40 yards] have that quality which will permit them to continue a pattern on down the range.Askins found that each yard of range beyond 40 yards reduced pattern density by an average of two percent. Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. The point is the model 12 evolved. Lay-a-way available for t, Excellent overall condition sporting original finishes. The Pitt-man-Robertson Act of 1937 began an 11 percent excise tax on sporting arms and ammunition. This test determines if excessive peening of the bolt locking cut in the receiver has occurred. Winchester Model 12 Takedown Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Ventilated RibProduced in 1961. Buckingham recorded his adventures in some of the best hunting stories ever written. Factory original Model 12s with round post ribs were made by Winchester, not Simmons. Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Vent RibAuction Date: February 17, 2023. Like new with a mark on the top of th, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" barrels, solid rib, 3" mag. Included with the gun is its orig, Winchester Model 12, 28 Gauge in very good to near fine original condition. Pandemonium! The pidgeon-grade duck gun was discontinued in 1961. The price in 1963 was $122 compared to $109.50 for the standard Model 12. The Simmons rib is done at Winchesters direction as it has the WP proof offset from the rib. He worked with another Winchester researcher. Made in 1928, 12 Gauge, 28"" barrel. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Curious, I fired five additional patterns at 60 yards with Model 12 number 1418XXX and the Winchester load of 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot. Standard Grade: 12-, 16-, 20- and 28-gauge; plain, solid or ventilated rib round barrels; standard lengths 26", 28", 30", 32"; plain walnut pistol-grip stock; grooved slide handle. The straighter stock reduced perceived recoil. Firearms dont get much more iconic than John Moses Brownings legendary Auto-5 semi-auto shotgun, affectionately called the Humpback for its distinctive drop at the rear of the receiver. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. This likely was the last mention of solid ribs in Winchester literature. The duck gun was discontinued in 1963. Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. Winchester ~ Model 12 Trap ~ Pump Action Shotgun ~ 12 Gauge. Manufactured in 1959. Action works perfectly. The slide handle was given a larger diameter, flat bottom and 14 grooves on each side of the handle about 1947. Must ship to an FFL. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. Ernie Simmons of Olathe, Kansas, a gunsmithing "whiz-kid" and a fairly good skeet shooter to boot-they were involved in the later cost-saving Winchester ventilated ribs for various Winchester shotguns- Model 12's, Model 50's, possibly Model 21's-. Duck hunters bought 12-gauge doubles with 3-inch chambers to use the new Super-X magnum load, the Super Twelve as it was soon called. Refresh your browser window to try again. . I don't believe their ever was a royalty, actually Simmons kept selling his special vent rib model 12's after the 1955 introduction of the Winchester Special Vent Rib @ New Haven. It has a Simmons rib, which is not out of the question for Winchester to have used according to Maddis in his book of the model 12's. The metal finish is superior to a field grade gun, higher polish and a matted receiver top and magazine tube. Blue Book on this fine collector 12 gauge is around $2,700! It won't be a collector but a shooter and should draw some attention. That is why I have never used one of my duck guns for duck hunting. It is the skeet style of stock with a comb drop of 1 1/2 2 1/2 inches, and a 14-inch length, butt to trigger. I fired 10 patterns for each of the five test loads in each of the two duck guns, for a total of 100 patterns. Westerns innovation was progressive-burning powder that deformed fewer shot during acceleration. Range was 40 yards from gun muzzle to target frame. No Reserve. restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum. This combination, which averaged 83.6% at 40 yards, averaged 44.2% at 60 yards! Duck guns always sold for a slight premium over the standard model. And for this reason the spike in prices for the forty two will go back down becouse there is a alternative that is for sure and safe and they know all the things that people look for to see if it came from the winchester factory. Notes - Delivery *Estimated delivery dates include seller's handling time, origin ZIP Code, destination ZIP Code and time of acceptance and will depend on shipping service selected and receipt of cleared payment. Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge (W9229) Price: $3,250.00 Item Number: W9229 Previously sold Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge shotgun. A red rubber Winchesterre coil pad was added the first year of production. In an ad in the October 1952 American Rifleman, Winchester proclaimed. ONLY ONE EVER PRODUCED BY WINCHESTER, ULIMATE RARITY. The slide lock is automatically released by the forward nudge of recoil in the Model 12. Instead of buying a gun thats The funds are returned to the states for wildlife restoration projects. The new 1935-style buttstock featured a closer and fuller pistol grip. Dolphin, I agree with you until the part where you imply that Model 12s were sent to Simmons for ribs and then sent back to Winchester to sell. The near nine-pound Model 12 duck gun is an anachronism among todays waterfowl hunting shotguns. My favorite 2 pins were Trap Guns made between 1957-1959 including special order Pigeon grades; fit, finish and blueing was best in those later years. He did note, however, that the rib first appeared at about serial number 240,000. This shotgun is in near new condition in the original box. 2023 Rock Island Auction Company. Model 12 duck guns had the same six-shot capacity as the standard Model 12: one in the chamber, five in the magazine. Each fired target was turned over and a 30-inch cardboard disc placed to cover the maximum number for pellet holes. My second blast bites off a dismayed climber. I also have seen a few in my day where the solid rib was removed and actually sent a customers Black Diamond to Simmons back in the seventies to put a vent rib on a solid rib gun. Manufactured in 1962. Built from 1912 to 1963. The era of plentiful ducks and liberal bag limits was also ending. The solid rib gun shows carrying wear while the ventilated rib gun was refinished when the rib was installed. becouse plain barrels shoot higher than solid ribs do ,solid ribs shoot flatter. There are currently no customer product questions on this lot. - Top Rated Plus - opens in a new window or tab, - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new window or tab. Model 12 duck guns could be ordered in pidgeon grade, featuring fancy wood and meticulous fitting and finish of parts. So a shooter really doesnt need a rib. The Olins used the Western ammunition plant at East Alton, Illinois, as collateral for borrowing about four million in cash, no small feat in the fall of 1931. A smothered roar from around the corner! The duck gun version of the Model 12, introduced in 1935, was a natural consequence of duck hunters in charge of Winchester. The magnum led to new class of long-range double-barrel shotguns for waterfowl. Thereafter, a staggering number of variations were produced during the 1912-1980 period. Along in the 1920s a few bold souls had long-chambered [3-inch], overbored, long-barreled, and heavy, long range 12-gauge Magnum double guns built. Including this gun, they found a total of 4 gun with a 1919 date. Save $500.02 SKU: 3226743 . Winchester symbol # G1285S. BARREL 30" CHOKE FULL 90% FACTORY BLUE ORIGINAL FACTORY HEAVY DUCK RECOIL PAD WOOD VERY GOOD. Dave Riffle in his book, The Greatest Hammerless Repeating Shotgun Ever Built: The Model 12 1912-1964, states The Winchester Model 12 was, and still remains, the only gun that was offered in over 100 different variations or configurations during its lifetime. It is fair to say that Winchester produced Model 12 shotguns for every conceivable shotgunning special interest group, including duck hunters. Also available initially were standard trap and special trap grades. Exc Orig Condition, Winchester Model 12 28-gauge, factory original, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 LIMITED EDITION 20GA. Come join the discussion about targets, clays, hunting, gunsmithing, gear reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. Numbers match on barrel and receiver. Bore and action are excellent. It is general consensus that 10 patterns are required for an accurate appraisal of a given load and barrel combination. I hunker down and blaze away. No other pump shotgun feels like the duck gun. In 1963, when production ended, Riffles book shows no options available. Alarm calls! No Reserve. I always wondered what the royalty was to Simmons on the Winchester Special Ventilated Rib that they installed. Its been debated over the years if the solid rib model 12 barrel were silver brazed or fused with heat? Could it be that the intended rough usage led to lack of care in the fitting of parts of early duck guns? A 2pin vent rib lets the shooter sight under the bird and keep the bird in sight. Title. Serial numbers match on barrel and receiver. Epic 22 Pocket Pistol: The Beretta 71 Jaguar. Houze relates that for the Model 12 the Watrous report suggested improve the smoothness of the action as it is criticized for being rough. How this was to be accomplished is not related but closer hand-fitting and gauging of parts was likely. Jack OConnor was there and sets the scene nicely in the Complete Book of Shooting. Great communications. One of my favorite subjectsI've read and reread the books by Madis, Riffle, and Stadt, and I still find it a little confusing. It has the long action slide handle. Wood is in very good condition showing very little handling or wear marks. Open Fullscreen. Mar 24, 2023 Winchester Model 12 Shotgun $150 Mar 24, 2023 Two Winchester Pump Shotguns $150 Mar 24, 2023 L.C. The ducks shot by me in the accompanying photograph were taken with Skeet boring and trap loads of #7 1/2-shot. 1935 3" magnum offerd, will convert all 12 gages if wanted to 3" magnums, the begining of the long forcing cone. And unlike our competitors, it extends beyond the buying process. The price $379 does not seem out of line for model 12's in this area; however, my question is does the Simmons rib add or detract from the value of the gun? Edwin Pugsley, in charge of Winchester at the time of receivership, is quoted in Williamsons book: The purchase of the company by the Olin interests brought a breath of life to the institution and brought to Winchester many things. The first was helping the gunsmiths. There was only one way to go after World War I: standardize shell lengths, discontinue bastard gauges and reduce the load options. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. I have several 2-pin guns. It would stop ducks consistently at 80 yards. Two years after Askins wrote the above, he received from Ithaca the first 3 1/2inch Magnum 10 double off the assembly line. A new chamber ring and a # 1 heavy draw adjusting sleeve. Regards Chuck. Ronald Stadt states in Winchester Shotguns and Shot-shells: All Winchester special ventilated rib magnum guns examined have sand-blasted receiver tops. Solid ribs were offered until the mid-1950s, except as noted by Stadt: The 1960 wholesale-retail catalog listed 30-inch solid rib pidgeon magnums. The earliest gun they found with a 2-pin rib has a serial number of 2037xx with a date of June 30th, 1919. The survival of both Western and Winchester now depended on Olin management. the ventilated rib is by simmons gin works. When winchester changed the chamber to 3" did they mark the barrels or reproof? own to figure out what you want. The 30" vent rib barrel is very good with a bright shiny bo, This Winchester Model 12 in 12 Gauge is in good condition with moderate wear to the wood surfaces and light thinning of the bluing on the barrel. Whether you're looking for a truck gun, something for the bug out bag, or a do-anything firearm we have you covered. In duck shooting the proportion of magazine guns in use is much higher, probably four men in five using the repeater. Askins added, Fact is, personally, I have always thought that I was surer on the second bird with a repeater than I was with a double gun. On gauges for duck hunting: No fault is to be found with the twelve [gauge] as a duck gun, whether in double barrel with 3 inch cases or in repeaters with 2 3/4 inch. Rudy was well known with model 12' s and pre-64 model 70's now as far a Felix, he's in a better place now. The Nylon 66, a relatively inexpensive rimfire with faux woodgrain, was the first successful synthetic-stock firearm. For example, only about 300 Super Fox and 800 of the Ithaca Magnum 10 doubles went into hunters hands during the period. Winchester undertook preparations for improvements in its firearms line following World War II. Smith brand, by the A.H. Fox Company of Philadelphia, by Parker, and by Ithaca. customers to the absolute best of our abilities. I have read the 3 different books I have on model 12's from cover to cover many times. Also, it was the only 1 3/8-ounce magnum load available. Such were the men of the long-range duck-hunting cult. From its debut until the end of the 1950's, the Winchester Model 1912 was the pump shotgun, long known as "the perfect repeater." In the 1950's Winchester's costs were losing pace with what they were ablle to sell their products for. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 5d 7h 6m 17240921. Most books say they did not. The number of pellet holes was divided by the average number of pellets in the load to produce the pattern percentage. Keith stated in 1967: The old 70% standard is now obsolete and most any full choke gun will go 75% or better. Thats like spending 12 days straight day and night. These are rare, a line can be seen along the dounut post on both sides. He is engraving the old (Ulrich big duck 12-5 pattern) on it. The stock finish is original and excellent. Bore is excellent. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. Franklin W. Olin founded Western Cartridge Company in 1898. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. during that time I handled many M-12's of varying configurations. seller description. It was a little rough so I am doing a restoration. The perimeter of the disc was then marked and the enclosed pellet holes counted. Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. 1 Winchester Model 70 Ultra Grade Featherweight 270 Win. Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. Winchester sent some M-12s to Simmons to have ribs installed, Simmons returned them to Win. 1934 skeet grade offerd. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 1d 7h 25m 17240921. Shooting the Model 12 Duck Gun I own two Model 12 duck guns. Winchester installed Simmons ribs and Simmons-designed ventilated ribs for several years. The slide handle was enlarged in about 1956 to a slightly extended beaver tail shape with 14 circular grooves. A Cold War era classic with smooth lines, a legendary back story, and an exotic-sounding name, Beretta's Model 71 was definitely a mouse that roared. - Straight Sighting Plane - Floating Vent rib action - Extra Strong Silver soldered posts Gun Type Over/Under w/RBSingle Barrel w/RB Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. - for PayPal Credit, opens in a new window or tab, about earning points with eBay Mastercard, Report this item - opens in new window or tab. custom bolt act. I RATE THE BLUING AT 98% AND THE WOOD AT 96+%. Twelve magnum guns grew lighter over the years and consequently kick harder. 30 Barrel. But getting back to the original question, a Simmons rib does detract from the value of a Model 12 and most people will turn away from them. I sold 41 model 12's and 21's at a gun auction in Wichita Kansas to accommodate the move. It still is. Franklin and his two sons John M. Olin and Spencer T. Olin were the managers of Olin Industries and Western Cartridge Company in 1931. After college and had some $$$ I started collecting them. Guns.com pledges to make gun buying easy, to support local gun stores, and to serve our I was at a local gunshop this morning and was looking at a model 12 2-3/4" that had a Simmons rib. Market hunting was legislated out of existence in the late teens. This is a correct factory Skeet grade 28 gauge with solid rib on the 26 skeet choked barrel. This test, along with a check of adjustment remaining in the takedown joint and functioning of the slide lock dis-connector, are my standard mechanical checks for a Model 12. Model 12 was offered in several different styles: 1. Winchester stated both 2 1/2 and 2 3/4 shells perform satisfactorily in this [duck] gun. The ejection port of the duck gun is about 1/8-inch longer than the standard port. No Reserve. Guns.com's selection won't leave you feeling unprepared. Very Good example of a Model 12 26 inch poly choke with vent rib 12 ga. Other conditions: Phone 715-478-0404 within 48 hours to confirm payment, . Winchester Model 12 16Ga Pump Shotgun 28" Excellent condition Made in 1939 Gun #: 903285649 Seller: JerArms GA Sales: 60 $872.00 Full Details More from this Seller 1 Image (s) Winston Churchill custom Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 20 gauge, gold relief, staggering wood, provenan. The Model 12 2 pin rib has always been "KING" but don't turn you nose up @ a Dounut Post model 12 as production in Trap & Skeet model only lasted from late 1955 to 1956 then round post was alternate rib to the 2 pin. Gun Digest editors know guns so you know guns. This Model 12 has Serial Number 1391884 was produced in 1953. The 12-gauge 3-inch magnum shotshell was developed to achieve this objective. Gun #: 978404477 Seller: Sportsmans Legacy GA Sales: 739 $25,000.00 Model 42s with donut post ribs, no Simmons markings, proof marks in the right places, in the proper serial number range, are considered to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. Buttstocks of duck guns had lead slugs inserted into the wood beneath the recoil pad. It also got a new action slide. Saint Charles, Missouri. The vent rib is stamped "SIMMONS GUN SPECIALTIES INC. KANSAS CITY, MO.". The 12 month average price is $622.51 new and $661.18 used. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. Important to note that this gun was made in 1956, the first year for the round post factory installed Special Ve, FOR YOUR VIEWING IS A VERY NICE WINCHESTER MODEL 12 in 20 GA. WITH A VENT RIBBED 26" BARREL AND IC CHOKED. Condition: excellent bright bore, 98% blue overall thinn, Winchester Model 12. The gun weighed 8 1/2 pounds with its 32-inch Full choke barrel. I believe the blueing to be original. The balance point is the takedown joint. service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. part of our network, we sell THEIR guns first whenever possible. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. I had a friend who is deceased now that did extensive research on the Model 12 2-pin rib. Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. Askins and Buckingham would sure be surprised at how far the 12 magnum has come. According to my source your Model 12 Winchester was made in 1924, so it is 89 years old. But I manage to concentrate, find the combination, and center a pair of easy sprigs. Askins concludes How far are we going to be able to kill ducks? I believe the solid ribs were soft (lead) soldered like the model 21's. Winchester made changes to the stock of the Model 12 duck gun after its introduction. I am tempted to stop off awhile and call. Action works very nicely. Winchester Pre War Mod 12 Trap 2 Barrel Set 12ga, Winchester Pre 64 Mod 12 DU Illinios No.1 Engraved by M Dubber, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3 INCH MAGNUM, Winchester Model 12 16 Gauge rare 2-barrel set, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, Winchester Mod 12 Vent Rib B-Carved Wood 12ga, "Winchester Model 12 Shotgun 12 Gauge (W12258), Winchester, Ducks Unlimited, Model 12, 12 Ga, Shotgun, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" 3" mag, Briley Chokes, Winchester Model 12 12 ga. Deluxe Skeet grade w/ factory Cutts, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge 24" VR bbl EARLY Serial #. Buy Winchester model 12 26" vent rib poly choke barrel: GunBroker is the largest seller of Pump Action Shotguns Shotguns Guns & Firearms All: 973937149 . For small bores, there are still new factory wood sets available. Thanks= Re-Up- forgot the offset marks on a factory ribbed gun- two of my 5 pre-1950 M12's have the factory solid rib, and the 1948 Pigeon Trap has the "Old Milled Rib" with the sandblast bulled top and the "Duck-Billed" rib extension. THE VENTILATED RIB IS BY SIMMONS GIN, 16ga, Full Choke, 26" barrel with a bright and shiny bore. It is possible for the slide lock to fail to unlock the action during recoil. First of all was the end of management by people who were not familiar or sympathetic with the gun and ammunition business. The Olins were avid duck hunters.
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