Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. So one thing I'll add. What do you think that. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. Peter Biello: Give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 you can also send us an email exchange at an HP morgue. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. So I reached down to grab the camera and looked back and like a ghost it's gone. I can't. We had six copies printed out each. So for our scientists to do the lumping and whatnot. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. Patrick Tate: Yes. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. New Hampshire Public Radio | John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. Mountain Lions in NH. Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Infinite Scroll Enabled. Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. That's pretty elaborate. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. Have a photo. Here it is. Are there other powers that be worried that scary mountain lions will scare off people from camping in New Hampshire. On a dirt road. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. There are corollaries in other states. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. What's going on. John. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. The 17-year-old Kiger mustang mare was born in Bend, Oregon, said Hodskins, who got her . Mountain lions ( Puma concolor) are one of the six native species of wild cats in North America. The most common areas to see mountain lions in Arizona are in places of rocky and mountainous terrain. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. You need a permit to have that. Verifiable pictures recorded by the observing person or a trail camera. Peter Biello: Hmm. And they were using all the habitat. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. Were there any differences between these two that we could have noticed right off. Thanks for calling. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence, Right? You treat it as if it's a sincere situation. So I will just say this is a big reason why there have not been confirmed sightings I think is that the evidence required first. Patrick Tate: Okay. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. Caller: It had to be a mountain lion convinced I was about 30. So I hate the idea that there's some sort of upward you know downward pressure from the bosses saying Don't you know don't tell about the mountain lions because it'll scare away the tourists. Rick van de Poll: Absolutely. The current estimate is 2,000 - 2,700 throughout Arizona. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. So what those ranges. The report came in from a conservation officer. A lot of times. I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. So I know it's another unconfirmed report but you string enough of these together. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. Peter Biello: Let's talk to Ron and where Ron thanks very much for calling. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. Are there Mountain Lions in NH? Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. John thanks. Do cougars live in New England? It was some sort of a Lion Mountain Lion animal. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. But no proof was offered. So let's let's go to the phones. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. Think you've seen a mountain lion? So that did it for me. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. Since 1917, Lions clubs have offered people the opportunity to give something back to their communities. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. 1957. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 so promised a discussion about conspiracy theories. What kind of animal is that. Yes. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. Sue Morse: First and foremost if you have color or if you could see details of color look at the front of the face around the Pumas muzzle the muzzle itself is pure white. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. You don't know what's going on. Caller: It had just left that field and was out. To date, the Department has not received any verifiable evidence (photographic or DNA)of mountain lions existing in New Hampshire. When you talk about a bobcat Bobcat maybe 80 90 pounds and then a mountain lion could be between 130 and 180 pounds. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Chartered 1973; Member of District 44-H; . Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. Caller: Are probably. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. She quotes a biologist in Lyme New Hampshire who who is keeping two mountain lions himself so in the not too distant past in the early nineteen hundreds it was perhaps more common and still in Maine. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. Thanks for taking my call. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. So what a neat experience. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. Well thanks for sharing. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. So I think in that story there's there's something for the believers and the nonbelievers and I and you know Mark L. Brock is who is a gentleman with the cougar Network told me this story is evidence that that if they were here we would know about it. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. Patrick Tate: No downward pressure at all I think actually Sean turned up and we found the evidence there a number of people would finally say finally we can put this debate to bed. Mountain lions live in the state. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. I don't know if she still is. We'll push great photos to the front page. Patrick Tate: Exactly I was gonna bring that up juvenile male of. Sam Evans-Brown: Well this might be a good moment to talk about hoaxes. Women control our lives. Absolutely. No that's a little bit outside the range. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. Give today. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. Rick van de Poll: Well a report that you know as John Harrigan up north has in co-ops County for about 15 years I kept track of reports and people would call me and tell me where they saw the mountain lion they thought they saw it and it varied right from you know downtown villages all the way to remote highlands of the North Country and and everywhere in between. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. Oh you saw him online. OK. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. They absolutely do. 19 We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. 235 or nhandy@ledgertranscript.com. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. Chapter X, Predators, Panther (Mountain Lion) From History of NH Game and Furbearers by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Yes. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. Peter Biello: Yeah. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. Mountain Lion | Squam Lakes Natural Science Center All exhibit and hiking trails are CLOSED for the season. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction 3,207 views Jul 31, 2019 78 Dislike Share Save New Hampshire Fish and Wildlife 634 subscribers During my thirty-one career at the New. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. Have it reported down in the Keene area. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. NH Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate reports that so far, mountain lion reports accompanied byphotographs have been misidentified bobcats or housecats, or pictures of mountain lions taken from the Internet and reported as being recorded in New Hampshire. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. We want answers. So they're scary. List of Mountains in New Hampshire is a general list of mountains in New Hampshire, with elevation.This list includes many mountains in the White Mountains range that covers about a quarter of the state, as well as mountains outside of that range.. They kill big animals. Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. Phone number 1 800. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. Mountain lions (especially males) have incredibly large ranges that they defend from rivals. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. It was not a bobcat. So so. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. So I just throwing that out there it's interesting. Caller: Oh yeah. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. Rick van de Poll: Well the mountain lion of course has been sort of an enigma in the wildlife suite for years and years. Part II. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Copyright New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.An official New Hampshire government website. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. Theres tracks everywhere. 44-H Links. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. It's bigger but bigger and better world. Patrick Tate: Martin Like what about Panther Panther saying animals same animal and like a bit of trivia Guinness Book of World Records says the animal with the most names is in English alone they're supposedly 40 names for Mount lion. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther.
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